Hi All:
May I ask your advice please? In a piece that I'm playing in May, I have a couple of instances of having to play three sixteenth notes in succession; D2,C#2, D2. I discovered quite by accident that if I leave all three fingers down for C#2 and add my pinkie, I can transition between notes much more easily and the changes sound much better, although there is a slight difference in tone. When I make the proper fingering changes, I don't produce the same smoothness in the sound of the note changes. I've worked and worked on this, and it's always the same.
Can I get away with this alternate fingering for C#2, or is this the biggest flute crime you've ever heard of? I've played it both ways so many times, that I can't tell anymore.
Thanks for your help!
Alternate Fingering
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
Hey, if these are short, rapid notes, and the pitch and color differences can be remedied, go for it! I use this a lot. There's a page near the end of Trevor Wye's tone book, in the intonation section, regarding c and c# intonation, and the next page is about trill key fingering intonation. The trill fingering is another solution, but has even bigger intonation issues. 
Okay! That is great news, MeLizzard. Thanks for your reply. This change works so much better for me with the alternate fingering. I don't think the tone difference is significant, but I wondered what others would say about this. I also found -- through the miracle of accidental discovery -- that E2 sounds much clearer when I depress the C# trill key. I am not doing that routinely. It seems to me that my job at this point is to perfect my emboucher for E2 to produce a clear note, but I have noticed the difference in clarity with the trill key.
As much as anything, it's fun to discover these kinds of things. It falls into the same category as improvisations that sound good even though they happened because my fingers took a bad hop.
"Oops, but ... wow! I'm doing that again, and this time on purpose!"
Yes, I see that Trevor Wye's Tone book shows favorably in posts throughout the forum. I don't have it yet, but I'll do something about that shortly. I knew all along that I was going to have to have this book.
I must correct something I said in my initial post. I'm not adding my pinkie at all when I change to C#2. I have no idea why I thought I did when I posted, but I was still working on my first cup of coffee at the time.
As much as anything, it's fun to discover these kinds of things. It falls into the same category as improvisations that sound good even though they happened because my fingers took a bad hop.
"Oops, but ... wow! I'm doing that again, and this time on purpose!"
Yes, I see that Trevor Wye's Tone book shows favorably in posts throughout the forum. I don't have it yet, but I'll do something about that shortly. I knew all along that I was going to have to have this book.
I must correct something I said in my initial post. I'm not adding my pinkie at all when I change to C#2. I have no idea why I thought I did when I posted, but I was still working on my first cup of coffee at the time.
Last edited by Burke on Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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powayflute01
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Yes, keeping down the three right-hand fingers between D2 and C#2 makes things much easier, doesn't it? Also, you can keep those fingers down while you play C2, although I would suggest if you want to do this, don't keep down your right index finger because the pitch and the quality of the note changes too much. Keeping down the other two fingers can help correct the pitch at times if you have a sustained note and can be much easier in fast passages.
Also, since you brought it up...I've never tried depressing the C# trill key while playing E2, but I know that when you're playing E3 it makes quite a difference. If you remove your pinky and use the C# trill key, it allows you to play E3 MUCH more softly than you would ordinarily be able to. (Though, this too changes the pitch, so it's probably not a good idea to use it on a sustained note unless you absoloutely need to.) It's really good for rocky transitions between significantly lower or higher notes to E3 because that's such a hard note (for me anyway) to jump to.
Have you been using a tuner? If not, I highly recommend you consider purchasing one. You should be able to get a decent one for about $20 and they help a lot when you're considering alternate fingerings and are not sure how much it will affect your pitch. Of course, tuning by ear is always a good skill to have...but not everyone has perfect pitch.
Also, since you brought it up...I've never tried depressing the C# trill key while playing E2, but I know that when you're playing E3 it makes quite a difference. If you remove your pinky and use the C# trill key, it allows you to play E3 MUCH more softly than you would ordinarily be able to. (Though, this too changes the pitch, so it's probably not a good idea to use it on a sustained note unless you absoloutely need to.) It's really good for rocky transitions between significantly lower or higher notes to E3 because that's such a hard note (for me anyway) to jump to.
Have you been using a tuner? If not, I highly recommend you consider purchasing one. You should be able to get a decent one for about $20 and they help a lot when you're considering alternate fingerings and are not sure how much it will affect your pitch. Of course, tuning by ear is always a good skill to have...but not everyone has perfect pitch.
Haha, this one is my favorite: :shock:
[size=75]I <3 LXA[/size]
[size=75]I <3 LXA[/size]
powayflute01 wrote:Yes, keeping down the three right-hand fingers between D2 and C#2 makes things much easier, doesn't it?
Big difference!
... just did it. I see what you mean.powayflute01 wrote:Also, you can keep those fingers down while you play C2, although I would suggest if you want to do this, don't keep down your right index finger because the pitch and the quality of the note changes too much. Keeping down the other two fingers can help correct the pitch at times if you have a sustained note and can be much easier in fast passages.
Ah-ha! Yes, it does make a difference with E3. Wow. I'll certainly remember this. I don't have any of those rocky transitions happening right now, but they're bound to surface eventually.powayflute01 wrote:Also, since you brought it up...I've never tried depressing the C# trill key while playing E2, but I know that when you're playing E3 it makes quite a difference. If you remove your pinky and use the C# trill key, it allows you to play E3 MUCH more softly than you would ordinarily be able to. (Though, this too changes the pitch, so it's probably not a good idea to use it on a sustained note unless you absoloutely need to.) It's really good for rocky transitions between significantly lower or higher notes to E3 because that's such a hard note (for me anyway) to jump to.
No, I don't have one. I've read about the need for a tuner in posts here too, just the same as the way I learned about Trevor Wye. Okay, that's two purchases I need to make.powayflute01 wrote:Have you been using a tuner? If not, I highly recommend you consider purchasing one. You should be able to get a decent one for about $20 and they help a lot when you're considering alternate fingerings and are not sure how much it will affect your pitch. Of course, tuning by ear is always a good skill to have...but not everyone has perfect pitch.
Glad it's working out. Regular fingerings all should be learned first, with good tone and intonation, but they're kind of just a beginning. All sorts of alternate fingerings are super-valuable in ensemble settings, or at extreme dynamics (piccolo, anyone?). As long as colors match and everything stays in tune, use whatever works. Also, I was told years ago (should check this to be sure) that, coupla hundred years ago, the three right-hand fingers were the fingering for c#2. Of course, our instrument at that time had one, three or six keys, no footjoint, and vastly different response! 
Tuners are certainly an eye-opener when using for the first time...might I make a shameless plug for my Korg DT-3? It's kinda high (about $75 usually), but great; there's also a Korg at around $30, and (unsure of the brand) a thingie called a MetroTune with, der, surprise, a metronome and tuner together. This thing's also around $30-$35, so parents are usually not upset about buying it. About the E2-stuffy-funny tone business...that tone book addresses this in the section regarding C#2-F2, a range in which, at least on many flutes, each pitch seems to have its very own, blatantly-different-from-the preceding-half-step color, and intonation problem. Eeesh! 
Tuners are certainly an eye-opener when using for the first time...might I make a shameless plug for my Korg DT-3? It's kinda high (about $75 usually), but great; there's also a Korg at around $30, and (unsure of the brand) a thingie called a MetroTune with, der, surprise, a metronome and tuner together. This thing's also around $30-$35, so parents are usually not upset about buying it. About the E2-stuffy-funny tone business...that tone book addresses this in the section regarding C#2-F2, a range in which, at least on many flutes, each pitch seems to have its very own, blatantly-different-from-the preceding-half-step color, and intonation problem. Eeesh!