Hello All,
This is my first post here. I'm upgrading and have tried several (Miyazawa, Powell, Haynes) so far. These have been used instruments. My budget is $5,000. I live in a rural area and have been having them shipped to me to try, which, as I'm sure you know, can eventually add up cost-wise. I currently have 2 Haynes to try; one made in 1963 and the other in the 70's. I've read that Haynes had a "golden" era and would like to know more about that. Are Haynes flutes from the 60's and 70's good flutes? I should probably add that I prefer a plateau model and these are plateau models. I have paired these flutes with a grenadilla headjoint and I just love that sound, especially the flute with the B foot. I have also tried a boxwood headjoint with the others I've tried and liked that as well. The price on both these models is $3,500. My feeling is that if I get a good quality flute I can experiment and broaden sound horizons by investing in different headjoints from time to time. I have been playing on an intermediate Armstrong and after trying these others have decided I've been working way too hard with that flute! I didn't seek any guidance when I bought it and have learned over the years that overall Armstrongs don't have the best reputation. The low register isn't bad on it but the high register is just so stiff. I thought it was just me and found out differently when I played the high register on the Miyazawa and Haynes. Any guidance would be appreciated. I don't want to spend money for a disappointing product again.
Upgrading and need guidance
Moderators: Classitar, pied_piper, Phineas
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pied_piper
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:31 pm
- Location: Virginia
Re: Upgrading and need guidance
Hi vflutegirl. Welcome to the Fluteland board!
Unfortunately, there are no definitive answers to your questions. The choice of a new flute is ultimately a very personal decision, but that choice is one that requires you to be well informed. So, it's good that you are asking questions.
I'll try to give you some additional information to partly answer your question about Haynes flutes. First you need to know that in the early-to-mid 70s, most of the flute makers changed the scale of their flutes. Up to that time, flutes were made with what is known as a traditional scale which was created by Boehm in the mid-1800s. Boehm's flute scale was created when A=435 for common. In the 20th century, the tuning of "A" began to rise and now A=440 or A=442 is common. Flutes created for A=435 require more work for the player to play at A=440. Because of that, flute makers recognized a need to change the flute scale so that it is easier to play in tune at A=440 (or A=442). Powell was one of the first around 1972 when they introduced the Cooper scale on their flutes. Haynes followed a few years later with their Deveau scale. For more information on this topic, I'd suggest you read "Why I love the Cooper Scale" by Robert Dick. You can read it here: http://www.larrykrantz.com/rdick2.htm Scroll down to about the middle of the page for that article.
A 1963 Haynes flute is definitely a traditional scale flute. The 1970s Haynes could be either a traditional or a Deveau scale, but you would have to contact Haynes to find out for sure. Now, that said, vintage Haynes flutes have always been highly regarded for their sound. Many professional flutists from the early-to-mid 1900s played Haynes flutes because they were the best available at that time. Since the introduction of the Cooper scale, most professional flutists now play a modern flute with the improved Cooper scale and today, most professional-level flutes are made with the Cooper scale or a slight variant. The Miyazawa would have a Cooper scale.
Now that doesn't mean that you should not select one of the Haynes flutes, but you should be aware of the scale difference and what that might mean to you and your intonation when playing. No flute plays every note perfectly in tune without the player making subtle embouchure adjustments, but with a better flute scale, less work is required of the player.
I believe that your intermediate Armstrong probably has a traditional scale so you may find the Haynes very comfortable to play in tune because you have been playing a flute with a traditional scale. I would suggest that you compare your Armstrong, the Haynes, and the Miyazawa with your tuner. Play a few scales slowly and watch the tuner to see how close each flute is on every note of the scale. Make a table that shows each flute a each note and indicate whether a note is in tune, flat or sharp. Perhaps that will help you decide which is easier to play in tune.
You also mention that you prefer the plateau model flutes. Because today most teachers steer their students toward open hole flutes with low B, there is a bigger market for them and the resale value of plateau flutes tends to be less than open hole flutes. Today, most professional flutists play on open hole flutes with low B. You didn't indicate if you are considering a career as a flutist, but if so, you may find that you need to switch to an open hole, low B flute in college. You can always plug the holes of an open hole flute if it makes you more comfortable.
So, those are a few rambling thoughts that you can consider when making your choice. I'll also refer you to the Fluteland Board FAQ for more information about selecting a flute: http://www.fluteland.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5859
I hope that helps and feel free to ask more questions!
Unfortunately, there are no definitive answers to your questions. The choice of a new flute is ultimately a very personal decision, but that choice is one that requires you to be well informed. So, it's good that you are asking questions.
I'll try to give you some additional information to partly answer your question about Haynes flutes. First you need to know that in the early-to-mid 70s, most of the flute makers changed the scale of their flutes. Up to that time, flutes were made with what is known as a traditional scale which was created by Boehm in the mid-1800s. Boehm's flute scale was created when A=435 for common. In the 20th century, the tuning of "A" began to rise and now A=440 or A=442 is common. Flutes created for A=435 require more work for the player to play at A=440. Because of that, flute makers recognized a need to change the flute scale so that it is easier to play in tune at A=440 (or A=442). Powell was one of the first around 1972 when they introduced the Cooper scale on their flutes. Haynes followed a few years later with their Deveau scale. For more information on this topic, I'd suggest you read "Why I love the Cooper Scale" by Robert Dick. You can read it here: http://www.larrykrantz.com/rdick2.htm Scroll down to about the middle of the page for that article.
A 1963 Haynes flute is definitely a traditional scale flute. The 1970s Haynes could be either a traditional or a Deveau scale, but you would have to contact Haynes to find out for sure. Now, that said, vintage Haynes flutes have always been highly regarded for their sound. Many professional flutists from the early-to-mid 1900s played Haynes flutes because they were the best available at that time. Since the introduction of the Cooper scale, most professional flutists now play a modern flute with the improved Cooper scale and today, most professional-level flutes are made with the Cooper scale or a slight variant. The Miyazawa would have a Cooper scale.
Now that doesn't mean that you should not select one of the Haynes flutes, but you should be aware of the scale difference and what that might mean to you and your intonation when playing. No flute plays every note perfectly in tune without the player making subtle embouchure adjustments, but with a better flute scale, less work is required of the player.
I believe that your intermediate Armstrong probably has a traditional scale so you may find the Haynes very comfortable to play in tune because you have been playing a flute with a traditional scale. I would suggest that you compare your Armstrong, the Haynes, and the Miyazawa with your tuner. Play a few scales slowly and watch the tuner to see how close each flute is on every note of the scale. Make a table that shows each flute a each note and indicate whether a note is in tune, flat or sharp. Perhaps that will help you decide which is easier to play in tune.
You also mention that you prefer the plateau model flutes. Because today most teachers steer their students toward open hole flutes with low B, there is a bigger market for them and the resale value of plateau flutes tends to be less than open hole flutes. Today, most professional flutists play on open hole flutes with low B. You didn't indicate if you are considering a career as a flutist, but if so, you may find that you need to switch to an open hole, low B flute in college. You can always plug the holes of an open hole flute if it makes you more comfortable.
So, those are a few rambling thoughts that you can consider when making your choice. I'll also refer you to the Fluteland Board FAQ for more information about selecting a flute: http://www.fluteland.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5859
I hope that helps and feel free to ask more questions!
"Never give a flute player a screwdriver."
--anonymous--
--anonymous--
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vflutegirl
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:40 pm
Re: Upgrading and need guidance
Hello all and thanks, pied_piper. This was probably the umteenth time you've covered that topic! I've located a Yamaha and Muramatsu I'd like to try. Both open hole but Powell has these Plug O's;have you heard of them or tried them? They look like they're pretty substantial; better than the plastic plugs. I'm not looking at a career in music but it is definitely a very important part of my life. I do take private instruction from time to time when I have a specific goal I want to work on, but not currently. The Haynes B foot has been so comfortable to play; so much more responsive. The grenadilla headjoint is a winner too; Mr. Boehm had an excellent point, I think, when he recommended the pairing of a wood headjoint with a metal body. Also, I wanted to ask what is the approximate cost of having a split e facilitator added to an instrument.
Re: Upgrading and need guidance
Not a response about what flute you should buy, but...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUTE-HOLE-PLUG ... 4abcf4e667
They look similar to the Plug O's but are much more affordable.
Good luck in your flute search!
I saw these on eBay, you might want to check them out:vflutegirl wrote:Powell has these Plug O's;have you heard of them or tried them? They look like they're pretty substantial; better than the plastic plugs.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUTE-HOLE-PLUG ... 4abcf4e667
They look similar to the Plug O's but are much more affordable.
Good luck in your flute search!