Question about colleges

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AurokeFlute
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Question about colleges

Post by AurokeFlute »

Im wanting to major in performance. Do i have to go to a school of music, or does a music department offer the same thing?
Life is like a musical instrument...

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MissyHPhoenix
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Re: Question about colleges

Post by MissyHPhoenix »

The college I am going to offers a performance degree in their Department of Music. It is not a "Music School".
Missy

Why Be Normal????

Kshel
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Re: Question about colleges

Post by Kshel »

Yep, Missy is right. Most four-year colleges have a music department that offers a performance degree. Some colleges are better than others for that specific degree (looking for music perf. majors to chime in here about what they know...).

Going to a "Music School" like a conservatory is very prestigious, but from what I understand they are more difficult to get into than a four-year performance degree and they are typically more stressful. I may have this totally wrong, just basing it on opinions of friends in the performance world.

fluteguy18
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Re: Question about colleges

Post by fluteguy18 »

Ultimately you can get a degree in Performance from any school that offers the degree program. You just have to check. You also need to make sure that the school is an accredited NASM (National Association of Schools of Music). If it isn't you may not be able to pursue a Masters degree easily.

I myself am a performance major and I'm applying to Grad schools right now (sent off a bunch of applications yesterday WOO!). When picking your undergrad school you have to be really careful. It's important to find a school that has good teachers (a good flute teacher especially) with a supporting environment. You can find these qualities at many different levels (conservatory or local school). The catch is, is that it is really easy for a place to look that way and it be the opposite. I have found myself in that position and I can't wait to get out for that very reason. It's also more difficult to get into some really good Master's programs if you don't have a good undergraduate school tied to your name. Schools like Rice or Juilliard won't give you the time of day unless your prescreening cds are absolutely stellar and you have developed some professional experience while at a smaller, lesser known school. So my recommendation is to get into the best school that you can.

If you haven't taken flute lessons before, then don't try the big conservatories. If you do take lessons, ask your teacher where they recommend and tell them that you want to be very aggressive in your pursuit of these schools. If you are looking at a Fall 2011 admission, you have already missed 95% of the pre-screening deadlines for nationally reputable flute programs. Most of them have a December 1st receipt date (not postmark). But not all programs have pre-screening! So there are still good schools that are still accepting applications. If you are looking at Spring 2012, or Fall 2012 then you are on the right track.

The whole Conservatory vs. University thing... don't sweat it. It doesn't necessarily matter that much. Conservatories like Juilliard are highly specialized and focused. Universities generally have a more rounded educational program. Some Universities have programs so strong that they are considered on the level of Conservatories. Take the University of Southern California for example. USC is considered by many to be one of the best flute programs in the country. Jim Walker had about 7 students win performing jobs this year. That is practically unheard of. Carol Wincenc at Juilliard and Bonnie Boyd at Eastman certainly can't say they've had that kind of success in one year.

So is this a lot to digest? You bet it is! I remember being in your shoes and being thrown in the shark tank my first semester in college. You learn very quickly how to navigate everything. I considered transferring out of my present university (see above reasoning), but I realized that this school had the connections I needed to get to where I wanted to go. So I stayed, networked, and things are looking promising. :)

AurokeFlute
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Re: Question about colleges

Post by AurokeFlute »

fluteguy18 wrote:Ultimately you can get a degree in Performance from any school that offers the degree program. You just have to check. You also need to make sure that the school is an accredited NASM (National Association of Schools of Music). If it isn't you may not be able to pursue a Masters degree easily.

I myself am a performance major and I'm applying to Grad schools right now (sent off a bunch of applications yesterday WOO!). When picking your undergrad school you have to be really careful. It's important to find a school that has good teachers (a good flute teacher especially) with a supporting environment. You can find these qualities at many different levels (conservatory or local school). The catch is, is that it is really easy for a place to look that way and it be the opposite. I have found myself in that position and I can't wait to get out for that very reason. It's also more difficult to get into some really good Master's programs if you don't have a good undergraduate school tied to your name. Schools like Rice or Juilliard won't give you the time of day unless your prescreening cds are absolutely stellar and you have developed some professional experience while at a smaller, lesser known school. So my recommendation is to get into the best school that you can.

If you haven't taken flute lessons before, then don't try the big conservatories. If you do take lessons, ask your teacher where they recommend and tell them that you want to be very aggressive in your pursuit of these schools. If you are looking at a Fall 2011 admission, you have already missed 95% of the pre-screening deadlines for nationally reputable flute programs. Most of them have a December 1st receipt date (not postmark). But not all programs have pre-screening! So there are still good schools that are still accepting applications. If you are looking at Spring 2012, or Fall 2012 then you are on the right track.

The whole Conservatory vs. University thing... don't sweat it. It doesn't necessarily matter that much. Conservatories like Juilliard are highly specialized and focused. Universities generally have a more rounded educational program. Some Universities have programs so strong that they are considered on the level of Conservatories. Take the University of Southern California for example. USC is considered by many to be one of the best flute programs in the country. Jim Walker had about 7 students win performing jobs this year. That is practically unheard of. Carol Wincenc at Juilliard and Bonnie Boyd at Eastman certainly can't say they've had that kind of success in one year.

So is this a lot to digest? You bet it is! I remember being in your shoes and being thrown in the shark tank my first semester in college. You learn very quickly how to navigate everything. I considered transferring out of my present university (see above reasoning), but I realized that this school had the connections I needed to get to where I wanted to go. So I stayed, networked, and things are looking promising. :)
Wow, thanks!! I will Deff. check the university of southern california. I do take lessons, yes. Is there a difference between a Music Department and a School of music?
Life is like a musical instrument...

What you get out of it,

Depends on how you play it.

fluteguy18
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Re: Question about colleges

Post by fluteguy18 »

A difference? Only in the size and in the way the organization is funded and reports to Provost. Otherwise, no. A Department tends to be small whereas a School tends to be larger.

PS. If you are looking at USC for Fall 2011, you've missed the deadline. The deadline was today. But, you never said when you are applying, so I don't know. Just an FYI.

AurokeFlute
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Re: Question about colleges

Post by AurokeFlute »

fluteguy18 wrote:A difference? Only in the size and in the way the organization is funded and reports to Provost. Otherwise, no. A Department tends to be small whereas a School tends to be larger.

PS. If you are looking at USC for Fall 2011, you've missed the deadline. The deadline was today. But, you never said when you are applying, so I don't know. Just an FYI.
lol, sorry for not saying, i thought i did! I plan to get my associates in-state(florida) the flute teacher at Brevard Community College is a member of the board for the NFA and either is or was the chairman of the Florida flute association. I like planning things out in advance, is all. it comforts me to know exactly what i'm doing. I graduate this spring, so i wouldnt start with my bachelors until at least 2014.
Life is like a musical instrument...

What you get out of it,

Depends on how you play it.

Arlee
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Re: Question about colleges

Post by Arlee »

To me the main difference between going to a music school and going to a college that has a music department has more to do with the type of experience you will get. In a music school everything is completly focused on music (obviously). Which can be good but it can also lead to issues with "burnout". However, you will meet a lot of people involved in music and probably in vary many different ways. So it is something to think about.

I personally went to a college with a small music department that is currently growing. My graduating class (in music) was the largest they had to that date (12 of us) but the music department staff were quite literally some of the most talented people I have ever met and might ever meet. Also, it is a unique experiance to be part of a growing music department. Also, there were all kinds of people around me an in various different classes that had nothing to do with music. This was good for me because I enjoy a good variety of experiences, but it isn't for everyone.

I would say think about what you want out of college and then do your best to find something that fits that the best. Also a big part of it is find a college that has a professor on your instrument whom you can work with. You don't have to like each other exactly, but this person will be the one professor you are likely to work the closest with over your college career and if you can't stand them, or they do not push you in the right ways/directions you won't get the most out of that experiance.

Obviously this is just my opinion though so take with a grain of salt of course :)

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sidekicker
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Re: Question about colleges

Post by sidekicker »

In my humble opinion, a flute performance major candidate should focus more on the teacher than the school. Many fine music schools/departments may not have the teacher that is right for you. When working on a performance degree it is absolutely essential that you have a teacher who brings the best out of you; i.e., one with whom you really click. Many "big-name" flutists, unfortunately, do not make the best teacher. And it's not enough to choose a teacher by watching him or her work with others, for example, at a masterclass. In that setting, the flute "master" is not only working with you, but also those who are auditing. In my experience, some (and definitely not all) of these flute master class givers are highly charismatic in front of large audiences, but make for really lousy one-on-one teachers in the studio.

The best advice I could offer you is to find flutists you like who also teach at universities or conservatories. Try to set up a meeting, preferably even a short lesson, to see how the two of you click. Believe me, it would be a horrible situation if you saw someone you really liked at a masterclass, then went to study with them, only to find they are nothing in the studio like they are in big public surroundings. It's a sad reality in the flute world; but, unfortunately, it is true in some cases. Again -- I want to stress that not all are like that. And some flute professors are fantastic with certain types of students, but suck with others for some reason. But it happens more than you may think (bad match between professor and student). So the best way to protect yourself from possibly being stuck for 4 years with a teacher you don't like and, more importantly, one who does not inspire you, is to try your hardest to meet them inside the studio environment. You may have to pay for a lesson, but it would be worth it, in my opinion, considering the huge cost of possibly making a mistake in choosing a flute professor who was not the right one for you.

Go for the teacher, not the school. Also, bear in mind that some of these people teach at more than one college; that becomes important when evaluating cost because one of the places at which he or she teaches may be much less expensive than another (actually, that's exactly what I did; my graduate school teacher taught at 3 different places and I selected the school I could most afford; of course, you have to be able to get in to those schools, too :-) ). And learn everything you possibly can about him or her. Talking to, or emailing, their former students (a google search easily turns up lots of flutists with web pages touting all of their teachers, so it's not hard to find them) is also a good tool to use.

Good luck!
SK

fluteguy18
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Re: Question about colleges

Post by fluteguy18 »

If words had physical weight, every single word in SK's post would be worth its weight in gold. I have found EVERY SINGLE WORD to be true. They have unfortunately been lessons that were very hard to learn as well. Performers are not necessarily good teachers. Good clinicians are not necessarily good one on one teachers. Some teachers will only work well with certain kinds of students. Some students have bad relationships with their teachers (or the relationship starts well but sours). It is far cheaper in the long run to pay for one lesson (even if it is over $200/hour) than to be accepted and be trapped for 4+ years with a teacher or a school that does not suit you well.

Sidekicker is very wise, and I would definitely take EVERY WORD seriously.

AurokeFlute
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Re: Question about colleges

Post by AurokeFlute »

sidekicker wrote:In my humble opinion, a flute performance major candidate should focus more on the teacher than the school. Many fine music schools/departments may not have the teacher that is right for you. When working on a performance degree it is absolutely essential that you have a teacher who brings the best out of you; i.e., one with whom you really click. Many "big-name" flutists, unfortunately, do not make the best teacher. And it's not enough to choose a teacher by watching him or her work with others, for example, at a masterclass. In that setting, the flute "master" is not only working with you, but also those who are auditing. In my experience, some (and definitely not all) of these flute master class givers are highly charismatic in front of large audiences, but make for really lousy one-on-one teachers in the studio.

The best advice I could offer you is to find flutists you like who also teach at universities or conservatories. Try to set up a meeting, preferably even a short lesson, to see how the two of you click. Believe me, it would be a horrible situation if you saw someone you really liked at a masterclass, then went to study with them, only to find they are nothing in the studio like they are in big public surroundings. It's a sad reality in the flute world; but, unfortunately, it is true in some cases. Again -- I want to stress that not all are like that. And some flute professors are fantastic with certain types of students, but suck with others for some reason. But it happens more than you may think (bad match between professor and student). So the best way to protect yourself from possibly being stuck for 4 years with a teacher you don't like and, more importantly, one who does not inspire you, is to try your hardest to meet them inside the studio environment. You may have to pay for a lesson, but it would be worth it, in my opinion, considering the huge cost of possibly making a mistake in choosing a flute professor who was not the right one for you.

Go for the teacher, not the school. Also, bear in mind that some of these people teach at more than one college; that becomes important when evaluating cost because one of the places at which he or she teaches may be much less expensive than another (actually, that's exactly what I did; my graduate school teacher taught at 3 different places and I selected the school I could most afford; of course, you have to be able to get in to those schools, too :-) ). And learn everything you possibly can about him or her. Talking to, or emailing, their former students (a google search easily turns up lots of flutists with web pages touting all of their teachers, so it's not hard to find them) is also a good tool to use.

Good luck!
SK
that is VERY good advice!!! so then it would be smart to go with the college my flute teacher reccommended. She knows her and has had a few students go to the college she is at. It isnt a university or conservatory, but from what i hear it is a very good music school. Florida Southern University. The flute teacher's name is Barbara Jacobson. It says she graduated from the new england conservatory with her bachelors and masters. I'm planning on meeting her and taking a lesson with her in february.

Do you have any reccommendations? I'm sure its different in college, but i've been to teachers that butter you up and give you praise to the point of sucking up, it seems like. I learn better with a strict teacher than a buttery one.
Life is like a musical instrument...

What you get out of it,

Depends on how you play it.

StephenC
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Re: Question about colleges

Post by StephenC »

fluteguy18 wrote:Ultimately you can get a degree in Performance from any school that offers the degree program. You just have to check. You also need to make sure that the school is an accredited NASM (National Association of Schools of Music). If it isn't you may not be able to pursue a Masters degree easily.

I myself am a performance major and I'm applying to Grad schools right now (sent off a bunch of applications yesterday WOO!). When picking your undergrad school you have to be really careful. It's important to find a school that has good teachers (a good flute teacher especially) with a supporting environment. You can find these qualities at many different levels (conservatory or local school). The catch is, is that it is really easy for a place to look that way and it be the opposite. I have found myself in that position and I can't wait to get out for that very reason. It's also more difficult to get into some really good Master's programs if you don't have a good undergraduate school tied to your name. Schools like Rice or Juilliard won't give you the time of day unless your prescreening cds are absolutely stellar and you have developed some professional experience while at a smaller, lesser known school. So my recommendation is to get into the best school that you can.

If you haven't taken flute music lessons before, then don't try the big conservatories. If you do take lessons, ask your teacher where they recommend and tell them that you want to be very aggressive in your pursuit of these schools. If you are looking at a Fall 2011 admission, you have already missed 95% of the pre-screening deadlines for nationally reputable flute programs. Most of them have a December 1st receipt date (not postmark). But not all programs have pre-screening! So there are still good schools that are still accepting applications. If you are looking at Spring 2012, or Fall 2012 then you are on the right track.

The whole Conservatory vs. University thing... don't sweat it. It doesn't necessarily matter that much. Conservatories like Juilliard are highly specialized and focused. Universities generally have a more rounded educational program. Some Universities have programs so strong that they are considered on the level of Conservatories. Take the University of Southern California for example. USC is considered by many to be one of the best flute programs in the country. Jim Walker had about 7 students win performing jobs this year. That is practically unheard of. Carol Wincenc at Juilliard and Bonnie Boyd at Eastman certainly can't say they've had that kind of success in one year.

So is this a lot to digest? You bet it is! I remember being in your shoes and being thrown in the shark tank my first semester in college. You learn very quickly how to navigate everything. I considered transferring out of my present university (see above reasoning), but I realized that this school had the connections I needed to get to where I wanted to go. So I stayed, networked, and things are looking promising. :)
Indeed. Very well said here fluteguy. The answer that you need is in this post. Personally, i don't think there is a difference if you go to a Music school or just enroll in one program under one Department of Music. It will teach you the same thing.

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