Miyazawa PB 102

Flute History and Instrument Purchase

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wall flood
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Miyazawa PB 102

Post by wall flood » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:45 pm

Greetings All
I'm trying out flutes (Miyazawa PB 102, Azumi AZ2, Di Zhao 600) and keep coming back to the PB 102.

I know there are other flutes out there I haven't tried yet ie Muramatsu EX, higher end YFL, Pearl, Altus etc.

But question is: is the Miyazawa PB-102 really worth 2900 dollars?

Im not really caught up in the plated vs sterling debate. My TJ alto is plated and people rave to me about its sound.

The 102 is hand made, pinless left hand mechanism, and "partial brogger" whatever that is.

Is it really a 3000 dollar flute though?

Thanks

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Phineas
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Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by Phineas » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:34 am

wall flood wrote:Greetings All
I'm trying out flutes (Miyazawa PB 102, Azumi AZ2, Di Zhao 600) and keep coming back to the PB 102.

I know there are other flutes out there I haven't tried yet ie Muramatsu EX, higher end YFL, Pearl, Altus etc.
But question is: is the Miyazawa PB-102 really worth 2900 dollars?
Im not really caught up in the plated vs sterling debate. My TJ alto is plated and people rave to me about its sound.
The 102 is hand made, pinless left hand mechanism, and "partial brogger" whatever that is.
Is it really a 3000 dollar flute though?

Thanks
What a flute is worth is relative to what you prefer, and what you are willing to pay for it. The design, durability, playability and the headjoint are what makes the instrument. Past that it is a matter of preference.

I paid something close to that for my Miyazawa though not that exact model. I have had my Miyazawa for 8 years now. I still do not feel I need to upgrade, or replace it. So to sum it up, yes. I picked it over a Muramatsu EX, and have owned most of the brands you have listed. You are getting a handmade/crafted flute with very high level craftsmanship. I think Miyazawa is one of the better values out there for what it is.

Do not get hung up on the whole "RESALE" kick. If the instrument suits you, you like it, and you can afford it, then buy it. Just make sure you do your research and make sure that you are paying a fair market rate for it.

wall flood
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Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by wall flood » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:28 am

Phineas
Thank you for the reply.

Im not concerned with resale value. Just want a good flute to take through college and maybe beyond.

I can't really afford 2900 but at the same time I'm not sure I cant if I really want to push my level of playing ie college wind ensemble.

The price of 2900 dollars seems universal wherever I look so Miyazawa must have very firm control over retail.

By worth I mean is there another flute that gets close to the PB 102 but cost less. The AZ2 and Di Zhao dont seem to really compete but I do think the AZ2 is a great value. Its a very capable instrument.

Thanks

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Phineas
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Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by Phineas » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:07 pm

wall flood wrote:Phineas
By worth I mean is there another flute that gets close to the PB 102 but cost less.
There are several flutes that I could recommend for half of the money. But it is all a matter of preference. Also keep in mind that Miyazawa is a handmade/crafted flute. Flutes like the Pearl Quantz, Azumi, Sonare, etc.. are hand finished but mostly manufactured. When I purchased my flute, I played on the Muramatsu EX, Yamaha and several Sankyo models. The Muramatsu was the superior instrument, but I did not care for the headjoint at the time. The Miyazawa was the best compromise of all of the models I tried. I wound up getting the Yamaha later on sale in Hamamatsu....read on....

For a while, I owned a Jupiter Capital edition that played similar to my Miyazawa. Similar Headjoint cut and everything. It was basically a Taiwanese replica of my Legacy 1E model. It was not as durable, but it was a decent carry-around. I only paid $500 for it.

Another flute I had was a YFL514. I bought this flute about the same time I bought the Miyazawa. Another great flute! I was a little less money than the Miyazawa, but I did not like the headjoint as much. Yamaha 500 series flutes are a great deal. You basically get an entry level of the Professional series Yamaha for the price of an intermediate level in other brands.

I am a big fan of the Pearl Flutes. I had a Quantz 665 for years as my work horse. Unfortunately it was stolen. Great flute for $1000. Not hand made, but the feel of the keys and the durability were excellent. If I were doing more performances, I would have definitely purchased a replacement. The headjoint can be a bit limiting, but a good balance from a value standpoint.

Lastly, and honorable mention is a Jupiter 611 or 711. Another great all around flute for under $1500

This is why trying to put a value on this type of this is so difficult....LOL but hey, shopping is half the fun!

wall flood
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Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by wall flood » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:53 am

Phineas
I can get a Pear 665 with Forza sterling head joint for 1000 dollars. My teacher does NOT like them however and says they don't hold adjustment well.

I've read mixed reviews on the Forza head joint which is supposedly "big and free blowing." Im not crazy about the Azumi or Di Zhao head joints although I'm sure its just a matter of sticking with one cut and getting used to it. I can play my CY head joint just fine and I wouldn't say its my favorite by any means.

I have not had the opportunity to play the EC head joint as NONE of the used YFL in my area have that no matter what body I can find (mostly 300-400 series). And the new YFL that that I've tried haven't really impressed me in terms of sound etc. Maybe I should look at these again but I hate to pay premium retail for one (or any brand for that matter). Personally I think the price of instruments, especially band instruments, has gotten out of hand.

Which is why I hate to pay 3000 even for the Miyazawa but I'm leaning towards just getting it and being done with it. For all the running around I'm doing looking at flutes I could be practicing......

I definitely have 1500. Maybe I'll just sell plasma to pay for the rest of the PB 102.

Another thought: this MZ-9 head joint is the least easy for me to play of the three (AZ2 and DZ600) but seems to have the most reward when I do get it right. In a few weeks or months I'll have made the adjustment to the MZ-9s "classic" embouchure hole.

There is a Pearl 665 local to. Not sure if it has the Forza head joint or not but hopefully they'll have one there.

Thanks again

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Phineas
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Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by Phineas » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:55 am

wall flood wrote:I can get a Pear 665 with Forza sterling head joint for 1000 dollars. My teacher does NOT like them however and says they don't hold adjustment well.
I did professional performances weekly under harsh conditions and mine held up just fine. Now, the older models like the 501s were like that. Even still, I had one of those and it held up fine as well. Wound up giving it to a friends daughter who played on it for many years.
I've read mixed reviews on the Forza head joint which is supposedly "big and free blowing."
I like the Forza better than the stock headjoint by far. I do not know about the whole "Big and Free Blowing" part. But I guess it is up to the player.
I have not had the opportunity to play the EC head joint as NONE of the used YFL in my area have that no matter what body I can find (mostly 300-400 series).
You will not see a EC on a Yamaha till you get to the 500 Series. Although you can put and EC into a 300 or 400 series.
And the new YFL that that I've tried haven't really impressed me in terms of sound etc. Maybe I should look at these again but I hate to pay premium retail for one (or any brand for that matter). Personally I think the price of instruments, especially band instruments, has gotten out of hand.
The pricing structure of their instruments has always been a mystery to me. the 200, 300, and 400 series flutes are identical from a design stand point. The only thing that changes is the material it is made of. Going from a 400 series to a 500 series is a HUGE jump! Yet, in some cases, you can find a 500 series less than a 400 series.

As far as an impressive sound, that all depends on what you get out of it...lol
Which is why I hate to pay 3000 even for the Miyazawa but I'm leaning towards just getting it and being done with it. For all the running around I'm doing looking at flutes I could be practicing......
Flute shopping IS good practice and a learning experience. Just be open minded and to not fall prey to the bull.
I definitely have 1500. Maybe I'll just sell plasma to pay for the rest of the PB 102.
Like I tell students/parents all of the time, get the best instrument you can AFFORD! $1500 is more than enough for you to find something decent to play on. Worse case, get the best playing flute you can afford, and replace the headjoint later.

Do not over think the process. There are just too many options at both ends of the spectrum. I wish I could help you more, but you are going to have to decide on your own. I will sum up a few things.....

1. Do you have to buy a $3000 flute for college? - No
2. Is $1500 Enough for a decent flute? - Yes but $2000 will give you more options.
3. Is Pearl a good brand? - Yes. Keep in mind most flute snobs are also brand snobs as well. Is a flute was solid gold and the wrong brand, they would still say it was junk.
4. Putting a Mayazawa joint on a different body may be an option.
5. Just play the d&&n thang!!!

Phineas

wall flood
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Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by wall flood » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:35 am

I think I'm going to trial a Pearl 655 then (with FORZA hj).

Right now the Azumi is probably my best option unless the 655 beats it.

Sure love this 102 though. That's the problem. I fell in love with it and love is rarely practical....

wall flood
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Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by wall flood » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:11 pm

Brought a Muramatsu EX home to try out and compare to the Miyazawa 102.

Its definitely LOUDER and has a very strong low register especially below G. Its very easy to blow as well with a very clear sound (for me). I wouldnt consider it "dark" or "muddled" at all which I've heard/read others describe it. It's a very nice instrument.

The Miyazawa 102 MAY be a "little quieter" and below G its lower register isnt quite as loud as the EX but then again the 102 is harder for me to blow. It has a smaller, oval shaped embouchure hole whereas the EX is Larger and a bit square in shape. The 102 has a more delicate action as well.

I'm wondering if this 102 doesnt have a leak causing its low end to be a little quieter. ...

I think I'm still enchanted by the Miyazawa though but its going to take more work to get used to the embouchure hole and get its full potential working for me-

wall flood
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Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by wall flood » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:12 pm

PS I have a Pearl 765 with Forza heard joint too. Cant say I really like it much

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Phineas
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Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by Phineas » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:33 pm

That is what flute shopping is all about!!

wall flood
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Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by wall flood » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:16 am

Ok I'm a little confused by some things I've read.

The oval embouchure hole on the Miyazaws MZ-9 hj is touted as a traditional, classic style which I've always believed offered more pallet and potential.

Then I read something Landell said about modern embouchure holes having more color, and potential that made me wonder. He also supposedly said the rectangular modern hj was more difficult (or challenging) to play.

I always thought the traditional head was harder to play?

Looking at his site the picture of all his head joints appear to have more of an oval hole.

So which is it? Will the oval hole "traditional classic" of the Miyazawa MZ-9 offer more potential, pallet of colors etc?

Or the more modern embouchure hole?
Thanks

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Phineas
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Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by Phineas » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:04 am

wall flood wrote:Ok I'm a little confused by some things I've read.
.....SNIP........
So which is it? Will the oval hole "traditional classic" of the Miyazawa MZ-9 offer more potential, pallet of colors etc?

Or the more modern embouchure hole?
Thanks
Again, it does not matter. All that matters is what works best for you.

You will find in the realm of musical instruments, there is a lot of theorist and alchemists. These are mostly people who are full of themselves(or sales), and like to come of with reasons for their existence. None of this crap means anything. How you play on an instrument/setup goes way further than a bunch of useless science. You will also find that 99% of the features of a flute are made for the player not your audience.

If you want a "PALLET of TONE COLOR", practice time will take you a lot farther than flute dollars. I run into people that come up with every excuse why they cannot play/execute a piece, exercise or sound. Very few admit they REALLY have to practice more.

Do not over think it. If you like it and can afford it, buy it. The worse case you will actually get better, and want something different. You may wind up with more than one flute, or many flutes. DO NOT OVER THINK IT, JUST PLAY THE D&&N THANG!!! Have fun and fulfillment doing it if you can.

Enjoy your experience flute shopping, and the opportunity to play on new and different platforms. Then tell me what YOU think of the differnt headjoint cuts. I would love to hear your feed back.

Phineas

abudoggie
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Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by abudoggie » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:49 pm

Phineas wrote: You will not see a EC on a Yamaha till you get to the 500 Series. Although you can put and EC into a 300 or 400 series.
Phineas
My daughter just got a new Yamaha 577 HCT. The newest 500 and up series now come with the Am headjoint. Some like it better than the EC.

Good luck. The search process can be both fun and frustrating. Go slow and enjoy the flute dating process. Soon you will be married :shock:

wall flood
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:46 am

Re: Miyazawa PB 102

Post by wall flood » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:50 pm

Haha I already have enough girl problems.

I love the Miyazawa but I'm finding it to be kind of small in my hands (key work), and lacking the "punch" that I'm looking for. Its a lovely instrument and love the quality of its handmade craftsmanship......but not as powerful as the Muranatsu or Yamahas I've tried.

Evenv the Azumi and Di Zhao seemed more powerful-

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