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Yamaha Picc

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stormageddon
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:17 am

Yamaha Picc

Postby stormageddon » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:35 pm

Does Yamaha make an all composite picc? I've seen several online written descriptions that say composite head and body, but the pictures always show a metal head. Not sure if it's just a typo or a photo discrepancy.

fluteguy18
Posts: 2298
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:11 pm

Re: Yamaha Picc

Postby fluteguy18 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:40 am

Offhand, I suspect they DO make an all composite, but I've not seen one with a plastic/ABS headjoint from Yamaha. You'd likely have to do a special order through an authorized Yamaha dealer.

There is always the option of ordering a custom headjoint for the usual YPC-32. It would cost a bit more in the end, but it would give you some versatility. Most custom makers generally only work in wood (varying types), but I imagine most would be willing to produce a plastic headjoint for you. It's the same process, just a different material.

Offhand I know that Eppler, Lopatin, McKenna, Pettry, Spell, Weissman.... They make custom piccolo heads, and are capable of producing something that's compatible with Yamaha. Mancke, Bulgheroni, Hammig, Powell, Burkart, Keefe.... they make headjoints too, but they're not customizable to different brands. They either fit or they don't. And they don't produce them in plastic(s).

SylvreKat
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:56 am
Location: KC metro

Re: Yamaha Picc

Postby SylvreKat » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:00 pm

...
Most custom makers generally only work in wood (varying types), but I imagine most would be willing to produce a plastic headjoint for you. It's the same process, just a different material.
...
I have to disagree that crafting wood and plastic is the same process. Wood burns; plastic melts. Using the same tools for drilling out the bore of a wood piccolo would ruin them with plastic. Just like you canNOT drill laminated sheets--the plastic coating melts to and destroys the drill bits due to the heat from the spinning. Meanwhile, paper (a wood product) at worst will burn.

BUT--that's not to say that they don't also have appropriate plasticking tools along with the wood ones. Best thing is to ask.

>'Kat
Flutes:
1975 Gemeinhardt M2 in chrome nickel
1982 Armstrong 80
2006 Yamaha 584

Piccs:
1978 Artley piece of crap 15 P
1982 Gemeinhardt 4S
1980s (?) Armstrong all wood (no model)

Bass:
2006 Jupiter di Medici G0199

Plus many many flute-cousins....

fluteguy18
Posts: 2298
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:11 pm

Re: Yamaha Picc

Postby fluteguy18 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:07 am


I have to disagree that crafting wood and plastic is the same process. Wood burns; plastic melts. Using the same tools for drilling out the bore of a wood piccolo would ruin them with plastic. Just like you canNOT drill laminated sheets--the plastic coating melts to and destroys the drill bits due to the heat from the spinning. Meanwhile, paper (a wood product) at worst will burn.

BUT--that's not to say that they don't also have appropriate plasticking tools along with the wood ones. Best thing is to ask.

>'Kat
While you have valid points about those materials and processes regarding burning/melting, and appropriate tooling, considering that I am a headjoint maker afterall... and pro classical flutist and flute technician, and a machinist.... I think that I am probably well aware of the processes involved in making both wood and plastic headjoints. Afterall, I have made both of them. ;)

For the majority of synthesized materials that have been/can be used to manufacture a non-metal/non-wood headjoint, the processes are about the same. You turn a piece of solid stock on a lathe to create the bore and contour. You manufacture fittings the same way, and embouchure holes the same way that you would with wood. This does of course exclude any kind of material that would require other forming processes (injection molding, casting, 3D printing, etc), but they're a totally different ballgame. You just have to understand how to work the material appropriately on the equipment in front of you.

But you're definitely right about most woods and plastics. Very different materials, with very different manufacturing techniques. However in this instance, they're likely to be quite similar. 8)

SylvreKat
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:56 am
Location: KC metro

Re: Yamaha Picc

Postby SylvreKat » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:35 pm

That's really interesting to learn, fluteguy! I will admit that I just assumed that piccolo plastic is similar to other plastics, and would need different tools than wood. After all, I've seen the mess of drill bits after an idiot coworker drilled laminated pages. No way to clean them, we could only throw them out. Well, we probably could've sent them to some machine shop but that would've been a bigger waste of money than just pitching and installing new.

So picc plastic tools like wood. I have learned my something new for today! Thanks for reposting, fluteguy!

>'Kat
Flutes:
1975 Gemeinhardt M2 in chrome nickel
1982 Armstrong 80
2006 Yamaha 584

Piccs:
1978 Artley piece of crap 15 P
1982 Gemeinhardt 4S
1980s (?) Armstrong all wood (no model)

Bass:
2006 Jupiter di Medici G0199

Plus many many flute-cousins....

fluteguy18
Posts: 2298
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:11 pm

Postby fluteguy18 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:50 pm

Of course! Quite a lot of plastic instruments are made from a plastic commercially called 'Delrin/Acetal' (Polyoxymethylene). Though other plastics like ABS ( Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene) are extremely common as well. ;)

SylvreKat
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:56 am
Location: KC metro

Re: Yamaha Picc

Postby SylvreKat » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:57 pm

I guess I just figured plastic instruments were cast, same as plastic toys and plastic spoons and etc. Or nowadays, printed with a 3d printer.

Although I'm pretty sure my plastic recorders (including my good Yami tenor) are cast and not drilled. If you look real close, you can see they have a seam.

You know, I wonder if 3d printing will change how instruments are made.

>'Kat
Flutes:
1975 Gemeinhardt M2 in chrome nickel
1982 Armstrong 80
2006 Yamaha 584

Piccs:
1978 Artley piece of crap 15 P
1982 Gemeinhardt 4S
1980s (?) Armstrong all wood (no model)

Bass:
2006 Jupiter di Medici G0199

Plus many many flute-cousins....


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