Cirqular Breathing...

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Anacrusis
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Cirqular Breathing...

Post by Anacrusis » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:54 pm

I've read a little about this, but I just don't understand it at all... I tryed to do it, but I don't think I was doing it right. It just seems so impossible! I read that it is very important if you want to make it into high positions in orchestras or whatever, which worries me. But I have also read that some people think it is not very important, and one should spend their time on other techniques instead. :?

So I ask, can any of you explain how to do cirqular breathing to me? And is it really needed?
(I would appreciate if you would just answer, and not just refer me to a book I could buy, please.)

Claiken
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Post by Claiken » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:55 pm

ive been wondering about this too... i think I get the technique behind it, but when i try it on my flute the sound doesnt continuously come out. Your supposed to store air in your cheeks and push that air out while breathing in through your nose, right?
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fluteguy18
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Post by fluteguy18 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:21 pm

Don't bother learning it. I have only ever met 1 flutist who knows how to circular breathe, and he is a graduate student from Brazil that I recently met at a Flute Festival. He then used it in a masterclass hosted by Michel Debost, and Debost really lit into him about it.

Use your time to work on etudes and technique studies instead. Yes, circular breathing could be useful in very specific situations, but in almost every piece of flute literature, it is possible to play without circular breathing.

Now, if you decide that you want to slowly learn how to do it, and put it on the back burner, then that is fine. Just don't waste valuable time trying to learn it. I myself will probably learn how to do it eventually, but only so that I can use it as a special effect in certain pieces of Contemporary flute literature. But, it will be one of the last things that I study, and one of the least important.

Another thing to think about, is that when players circular breathe for an extended amount of time, the audience can end up feeling out of breath, and grow to dislike the playing.

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Anacrusis
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Post by Anacrusis » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:04 pm

Thank you for the advice. I think I will put off learning it, atleast until I get really good at other techniques. :P

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vandoren
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Post by vandoren » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:37 am

A well known exponent (in Europe) of circular breathing is the virtuoso flautist Sharon Bezaly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharon_Bezaly
IanR..................

.............still trying to become a musician at 66 years of age !

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sidekicker
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Re: Cirqular Breathing...

Post by sidekicker » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:25 am

Anacrusis wrote:I read that it is very important if you want to make it into high positions in orchestras or whatever, which worries me. But I have also read that some people think it is not very important, and one should spend their time on other techniques instead. :?
Listen to the latter group of people. Based on my own personal experiences playing in all types of performing venues over many years, I would submit that whoever is telling you that circular breathing is vital to reach high orchestral positions is flat out wrong and appears horribly misinformed about the field of professional flute playing.

Personally, I find the desire to be able to do this counter productive in some respects. Breathing in music making is often tied to phrasing. If one does not stop to breathe at all, there is a risk that phrases will extend far past their natural, or musically required, beginning and ending points. In other words, if you circular breathe throughout an entire piece, you might -- and probably will -- miss the much more important ebb and flow of correcting phrasing, a performance feature that pretty much rounds out your personal interpretation of the piece. This, IMO, is much much more important than being able to play without stopping to breathe.

Don't waste your time on it, especially if you have not yet mastered the many other more important facets of flute playing. If you can do it, fine; but your inability to pull it off is not going to keep you from getting a job assuming you play will in all the other more important respects (technique, tone, style, etc.).

Would it possible for you to point to the sources you have found that say circular breathing is that necessary? I'd really like to see where that type of advice is coming from and in what context.

SK

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Anacrusis
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Post by Anacrusis » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:10 pm

Sure, here's were I read about cirqular breathing being important...

http://www.larrykrantz.com/faqflute.htm#2182

...And I quote:

"I believe there are three prime reasons to learn circular breathing, and that learning circular breathing ought to be right at the top of every young flutist's agenda "

And the thing about surviving in professional music...

"3) SURVIVE IN THE PROFESSION OF MUSIC. Circular breathing is here. All graduates of the Paris Conservatory do it; all graduates of the Musik-Akademie der Stadt Basel do it and all graduates of other leading European Conservatories do it. A word to younger flutists: You will meet these people at auditions and in competitions. Don't let them blow you away; you have just as much potential as they. I have received "thank you" notes from people who learned circular breathing from my method. The "thank you's" were for jobs -- orchestra jobs won at auditions because they could distinguish themselves from other players with their greater freedom of dynamics and phrasing -- which led to their being able to express their musicality on a higher level. As a jury member at the Geneva International Competition this week just past, I was aware of a lot of circular breathing in traditional repertoire (Schubert, Paganini, Bach, etc). Contestants who used circular breathing included the prizewinners."

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sidekicker
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Post by sidekicker » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:28 am

Okay. Thanks for directing us to that. The source of that idea is important, and makes me even more certain of my original answer. And I'll just leave it at that. My opinion is that circular breathing is not as critical as Mr. Dick makes it out to be.

SK

MISHUGINA
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Post by MISHUGINA » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:12 am

Anacrusis wrote:Sure, here's were I read about cirqular breathing being important...

http://www.larrykrantz.com/faqflute.htm#2182

...And I quote:

"I believe there are three prime reasons to learn circular breathing, and that learning circular breathing ought to be right at the top of every young flutist's agenda "

And the thing about surviving in professional music...

"3) SURVIVE IN THE PROFESSION OF MUSIC. Circular breathing is here. All graduates of the Paris Conservatory do it; all graduates of the Musik-Akademie der Stadt Basel do it and all graduates of other leading European Conservatories do it. A word to younger flutists: You will meet these people at auditions and in competitions. Don't let them blow you away; you have just as much potential as they. I have received "thank you" notes from people who learned circular breathing from my method. The "thank you's" were for jobs -- orchestra jobs won at auditions because they could distinguish themselves from other players with their greater freedom of dynamics and phrasing -- which led to their being able to express their musicality on a higher level. As a jury member at the Geneva International Competition this week just past, I was aware of a lot of circular breathing in traditional repertoire (Schubert, Paganini, Bach, etc). Contestants who used circular breathing included the prizewinners."
Is Lenny Krantz correct that all graduates of Paris Conservertoire knows circular breathing? Emmanuel Pahud is one of them and he doesn't use them in performances and Jean-pierre Rampal doesn't use circular breathing either. But maybe the world is changing, who knows?

samuelpea
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Post by samuelpea » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:20 am

does circular breathing not require you to store (and therefore blow?) with air from the mouth?

therefore this would mess the pitch up, no?

wally
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Post by wally » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:35 pm

Here's a youtube video of Mr. Guenther Schmitz demo-ing circular fluting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ddSSx7HsH0

ExPhysKid
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Post by ExPhysKid » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:11 pm

As an oboist as well, I can personally attest that circular breathing is a hugely beneficial ability among double reed players. As you can see from this video, there are absolutely ZERO places to breathe (because there are ZERO rests) from 0:24 to the end of the video. Pieces like this for oboe require the player to have mastered circular breathing. Personally, I think it's just a cruel way for certain composers to further pick on double reed players. :evil: Flute players generally get by pretty unscathed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQDZlkJkyBU

fluteguy18
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Post by fluteguy18 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:51 pm

I don't think for flute players it is critical, but it is on my list of techniques to learn this summer.

accidentaltourist
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Circular blowing

Post by accidentaltourist » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:01 am

fluteguy18 wrote:Don't bother learning it. I have only ever met 1 flutist who knows how to circular breathe, and he is a graduate student from Brazil that I recently met at a Flute Festival. He then used it in a masterclass hosted by Michel Debost, and Debost really lit into him about it.
Nice summary. Debost in his book "The Simple Flute" has discussed in detail about what he and Galway calls "circular blowing" instead. Not only has he claimed that he was no good at it, but also he shares his (as usual) strong view on the uselessness of such technique, as he has never managed to obtain the tone color he wants using such technique... :roll:

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