FIX: Low D unstable in Octave Jumps but OK in a scale... ?

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flutego12
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FIX: Low D unstable in Octave Jumps but OK in a scale... ?

Post by flutego12 » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:13 am

Having oggled the pads all week with a leak light (need new glasses) :shock: I'm overall relatively happy with what the multiple pad reseats achieved.

However, annoyingly ( :oops: ) I haven't solved the unstable or less-than-solid Low D which rears it's ugly head during Octave Jumps. :roll:

Curiously the Low D transitions well in a descending / ascending scale and individually the notes are solid until it approaches the Low D and the solidness becomes fickle. :?:

The Note improves when greater pressure is placed on Fkey - not good for technique.

I have my hypotheses, but the ... (yes time to build the maghelic leak detector)

Appreciate your lightning fast diagnoses that comes from irreplaceable experience. :|

You will say there is a leak in the Low D?
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pied_piper
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Re: FIX: Low D unstable in Octave Jumps but OK in a scale..

Post by pied_piper » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:03 pm

flutego12 wrote:Having oggled the pads all week with a leak light (need new glasses) :shock: I'm overall relatively happy with what the multiple pad reseats achieved.

However, annoyingly ( :oops: ) I haven't solved the unstable or less-than-solid Low D which rears it's ugly head during Octave Jumps. :roll:

Curiously the Low D transitions well in a descending / ascending scale and individually the notes are solid until it approaches the Low D and the solidness becomes fickle. :?:

The Note improves when greater pressure is placed on Fkey - not good for technique.

I have my hypotheses, but the ... (yes time to build the maghelic leak detector)

Appreciate your lightning fast diagnoses that comes from irreplaceable experience. :|

You will say there is a leak in the Low D?
Well, we might say you have a leak in your embouchure :lol: Seriously, octave jumps down to low D or C can be challenging sometimes even when the flute is performing perfectly.

Also, checking flute pads with a leak light is less than accurate. Light deflects through the skin and it is difficult to tell if it is a leak or light diffusion. Use a feeler to check for pad coverage - but you already know that... Any lower note can be affected by a leak in any pad further north on the flute, so you might have a leak in the D, but there could be a leak anywhere above and the low D will not respond readily, especially on the octave jump down.

Break out your feeler and recheck all the pads. That's how techs have done it for decades before the Magnehelic was invented!!! You have a clue that you stated yourself: the note improves with more pressure on the F, so that would be a good place to start... :o
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fluteguy18
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Re: FIX: Low D unstable in Octave Jumps but OK in a scale..

Post by fluteguy18 » Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:48 pm

I'm suspicious that your F-F# regulation is over-adjusted. Furthermore, you should really be trying to get full coverage by shimming and then only seating the pads to sort of... smooth out any inconsistencies. Seating can only do so much. Break out your feeler gauges ( to get a really good idea of what is going on try using 0.0005" thick mylar stock instead of cigarette paper) and then go from there. Make sure you're using your feeler gauges during regulation too.

Leak lights are helpful if you know what to look for, but as PP said, they can be deceptive. Fluorescent lights are also very warm and cause problems on their own so if you need to use one, I would recommend an LED leak light if you intend to have it on for more than 5-10 seconds at a time. They don't heat up and they're just as bright or brighter than standard fluorescent lights.

And embouchure work is probably a good idea too. ;)

mirwa
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Re: FIX: Low D unstable in Octave Jumps but OK in a scale..

Post by mirwa » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:41 am

You have a leak, be it mechanical or physical, and I very much doubt it's the D itself, but likely anything including Eb.

Sense of touch, is so important with flutes.

Here is a test, play C - index finger left hand only, then play low D all fingers down with light pressure not heavy as that defeats the point of the test, does D play cleanly and instantly.

If it doesn't then you have leaks

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flutego12
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Re: FIX: Low D unstable in Octave Jumps but OK in a scale..

Post by flutego12 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:37 am

:mrgreen: leaky huhh! ...
possible AND probable 8)
how did you know?! PP & FG18

put it this way, flute came back 3mths after service, but just still within service warranty - it's a newer version student Yamaha that is not made in Japan.
(I've seen a few and somebody tell me I"m right, the metal is softer, the pads are poorer...and typically takes longer to service than a MiJ flute :x ) ... et cetera, et cetera. A few leaks had developed in the ensuing period. However the only complaint voiced was that of the fickle Low D. Apparently the flute teacher was teaching the daughter embouchure work when they discovered it. The mum playtested it too, now - SHE has leaky chops, kay.

I surprised myself that having been suitably distracted the last two month with horns, yes horns :twisted: , I thought my embouchure would surely be confused but surprised myself a few mornings ago with my amazing newfound power and puff - embouchure wasn't half bad either - :wink: :?: Very pleased. But I should be mindful of how alternating between the two affects my embouchure and what adjustment is required to be mindful of.

Back to the flute, yes thanks for the reminder though, I had in fact gone back to the age old tried and tested feeler technology to solve the big mystery. Have sent for the various thickness (coloured film) but using with the cigarette paper for now. Am currently running low on washers. Where can I get them locally mirwa? Also do you use plastic or cardboard or tracing paper? I tend to favour the plasticky ones found in the older Yamahas.

Appreciate the tips and advice, ALL

Always...
Flutego12
Last edited by flutego12 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mirwa
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Re: FIX: Low D unstable in Octave Jumps but OK in a scale..

Post by mirwa » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:53 pm

Nothing is local here in Australia, everything is ex USA.

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flutego12
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Re: FIX: Low D unstable in Octave Jumps but OK in a scale..

Post by flutego12 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:11 pm

mirwa wrote:Nothing is local here in Australia, everything is ex USA.
We are so deprived...
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mirwa
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Re: FIX: Low D unstable in Octave Jumps but OK in a scale..

Post by mirwa » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:53 pm

If you are ever stuck for what is wrong, you can simply post it to me in Perth, I can tell you want I see is wrong and return post it back to you to fix,

I have or should say I know some aspiring techs in each state that post some of there work to me to assess.

Here in Australia there are no training courses or apprenticeships available.

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flutego12
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Re: FIX: Low D unstable in Octave Jumps but OK in a scale..

Post by flutego12 » Sun May 18, 2014 3:34 pm

mirwa wrote:If you are ever stuck for what is wrong, you can simply post it to me in Perth, I can tell you want I see is wrong and return post it back to you to fix,

I have or should say I know some aspiring techs in each state that post some of there work to me to assess.

Here in Australia there are no training courses or apprenticeships available.
Hello Steve, I just saw your very kind offer. Have not been on the forum much lately.
Thank you - I will certainly take a raincheck on that. :)
Meanwhile, I will recommend mirwa to my WA flutist friend - she is in Geraldton and due for a service.
Have not heard back from her.
flutist with a screwdriver

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